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	<title>Comments on: Mic modeling lab too complicated</title>
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	<description>musings on life as a university professor</description>
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		<title>By: Mic modeling lab rethought &#171; Gas station without pumps</title>
		<link>http://gasstationwithoutpumps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/mic-modeling-lab-too-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-7952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mic modeling lab rethought &#171; Gas station without pumps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] Mic modeling lab too complicated, I complained about the following graph being too complicated for the 2nd week lab for the circuits [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mic modeling lab too complicated, I complained about the following graph being too complicated for the 2nd week lab for the circuits [...]</p>
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		<title>By: gasstationwithoutpumps</title>
		<link>http://gasstationwithoutpumps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/mic-modeling-lab-too-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-7940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gasstationwithoutpumps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2012 04:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I played with my amplifier circuit some more today.  Almost all the distortion I was seeing was from either the input AC-coupling or the AC-coupling of the speaker.  I could get rid of most of it by using huge (470µF) capacitors for the DC-blocking capacitors.

There may be a little crossover distortion from not having a little too much separation between the bias voltages of the nFET and pFET, but I plan to stick in a trimpot and see whether trimming the bias resistor helps.

The mic is definitely staying in saturation, but I&#039;ll have to discuss that with the students more than I had originally planned, since the linear region is something to avoid here.  I kind of like the idea of having them plot the i-vs-v curve, though, since it is not what they would expect (not having had any nonlinear models at the point in the course where they&#039;ll be doing the plot).  

I also found out that the power amp based on a single op amp plus cMOS push-pull output stage was oscillating at around 4kHz,and I had to add a compensating capacitor between the op amp output and the negative input of the op amp.  I believe that the problem is that the FETs and the bias network acted as a large capacitive (or RC) load on the op amp,resulting in enough phase change that the feedback signal was shifted. Now I&#039;m wondering whether the power amp stage is too complicated for a first circuits class.  I hope not, since I&#039;ve already bought the FETs for the students and scheduled both threshold voltage measurement and the power amp lab.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played with my amplifier circuit some more today.  Almost all the distortion I was seeing was from either the input AC-coupling or the AC-coupling of the speaker.  I could get rid of most of it by using huge (470µF) capacitors for the DC-blocking capacitors.</p>
<p>There may be a little crossover distortion from not having a little too much separation between the bias voltages of the nFET and pFET, but I plan to stick in a trimpot and see whether trimming the bias resistor helps.</p>
<p>The mic is definitely staying in saturation, but I&#8217;ll have to discuss that with the students more than I had originally planned, since the linear region is something to avoid here.  I kind of like the idea of having them plot the i-vs-v curve, though, since it is not what they would expect (not having had any nonlinear models at the point in the course where they&#8217;ll be doing the plot).  </p>
<p>I also found out that the power amp based on a single op amp plus cMOS push-pull output stage was oscillating at around 4kHz,and I had to add a compensating capacitor between the op amp output and the negative input of the op amp.  I believe that the problem is that the FETs and the bias network acted as a large capacitive (or RC) load on the op amp,resulting in enough phase change that the feedback signal was shifted. Now I&#8217;m wondering whether the power amp stage is too complicated for a first circuits class.  I hope not, since I&#8217;ve already bought the FETs for the students and scheduled both threshold voltage measurement and the power amp lab.</p>
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		<title>By: Mylène</title>
		<link>http://gasstationwithoutpumps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/mic-modeling-lab-too-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-7938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mylène]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2012 03:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gasstationwithoutpumps.wordpress.com/?p=5826#comment-7938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting results.  I think you&#039;re using the same electret mic I use, and I&#039;ve never gotten any noticeable distortion that I&#039;ve traced back to the mic.  That doesn&#039;t necessarily mean much -- by the time that project rolls around, I&#039;m so busy getting students to troubleshoot that I&#039;m not much concerned with modelling the mic, so I haven&#039;t tried to quantify the distortion.  Do you have a way to measure harmonic distortion -- maybe by feeding the signal into a sound card?

What range of signal amplitude are you getting from the electret mic?  If it&#039;s biased at 3V, I can&#039;t imagine that you&#039;re in any danger of going into the linear region.  You mention a load resistor -- do you necessarily need one?  If the signal will eventually be fed into a non-inverting op-amp (that presumably has megaohms of input impedance), then for the purpose of characterizing the mic, could you use the voltmeter (or scope) as the &quot;load&quot;? 

I know what you mean about not expecting students to come up with the two-part model.  I don&#039;t know of a model that accurately represents the slope of the &quot;saturation&quot; region either.  I&#039;ve always seen it described as &quot;approximately constant current&quot; but drawn with a slight positive slope, in that way that textbooks often gloss over their choices of abstractions.  Would it make sense for students to characterize the mic in the frequency domain instead?  My students often find it interesting to discover that &quot;everything is a band-pass filter&quot;, so that when we sweep an entire circuit, the loss of (say) high-frequency signals consists of contributions from every stage.  A way to extend their sense-making is to ask, &quot;If we wanted to use this circuit at higher frequencies, which stage would have to change first?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting results.  I think you&#8217;re using the same electret mic I use, and I&#8217;ve never gotten any noticeable distortion that I&#8217;ve traced back to the mic.  That doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean much &#8212; by the time that project rolls around, I&#8217;m so busy getting students to troubleshoot that I&#8217;m not much concerned with modelling the mic, so I haven&#8217;t tried to quantify the distortion.  Do you have a way to measure harmonic distortion &#8212; maybe by feeding the signal into a sound card?</p>
<p>What range of signal amplitude are you getting from the electret mic?  If it&#8217;s biased at 3V, I can&#8217;t imagine that you&#8217;re in any danger of going into the linear region.  You mention a load resistor &#8212; do you necessarily need one?  If the signal will eventually be fed into a non-inverting op-amp (that presumably has megaohms of input impedance), then for the purpose of characterizing the mic, could you use the voltmeter (or scope) as the &#8220;load&#8221;? </p>
<p>I know what you mean about not expecting students to come up with the two-part model.  I don&#8217;t know of a model that accurately represents the slope of the &#8220;saturation&#8221; region either.  I&#8217;ve always seen it described as &#8220;approximately constant current&#8221; but drawn with a slight positive slope, in that way that textbooks often gloss over their choices of abstractions.  Would it make sense for students to characterize the mic in the frequency domain instead?  My students often find it interesting to discover that &#8220;everything is a band-pass filter&#8221;, so that when we sweep an entire circuit, the loss of (say) high-frequency signals consists of contributions from every stage.  A way to extend their sense-making is to ask, &#8220;If we wanted to use this circuit at higher frequencies, which stage would have to change first?&#8221;</p>
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